QB Suckitude - Doug Flutie & Rob Johnson '98 - '01

7/10/2011

Congrats! You are a Bills fan! Everyone loses!!!

The Scizz

It has been awhile since I posted my last QB suckitude rant, so sticking with the theme of controversy that has engulfed this site over the past week, I might as well jump into one of the biggest in-fighting arguments among fans to ever hit One Bills Drive; Doug Flutie Vs. Rob Johnson.

There are several key points that need to be discussed about this so-called "rivalry". First of all, it has to be considered one of the saddest QB controversies of all-time. While New England had Brady/Bledsoe and San Diego had Brees/Rivers, the Bills had a 40 year-old CFL player and and a completely unproven kid with no starting experience. At this point I would have killed for a Simms/Hostetler. I have always said since then, that no matter what side of the rivalry you were on, everyone lost. Neither player was ever the answer to the Bills' QB future. You want to argue which one was better for them in the "now"? Go right ahead, but to say either one was the future leader of the franchise means that you are strictly insane and should go back to starting your Casey Anthony fan-club.

Second, and I know I'm going to take a ton of shit from the rest of the crew for this one, but I was a Rob Johnson guy. Yup. There it is. First step is admitting your problem.

Let me make it perfectly clear though. I never hated Flutie. I loved the guy and like everyone else in Buffalo I had several hundred boxes of Flutie Flakes stored away (seriously, people treated those things like rare currency). My obsession at the time was about the previously mentioned "future" of the franchise. Despite never winning a Super Bowl, the Buffalo teams of the 90's had spoiled me. I was used to that team winning all the time and after the fail that was Todd Collins, I needed a new Jim Kelly. Forget that the Bills were a playoff team in 1999, I was only thinking about the next four years of Super Bowl runs and MVP trophies for my new quarterback. As I have said many times before, Jim Kelly was and still is my favorite player, and the cockiness that Rob Johnson displayed may have reminded me a bit of 'ole Jimbo. Of course I confused cockiness with pure douche-baggery. What can I say? I was a dumb, immature college Freshman and I wanted Rob Johnson to be the man SO badly. I was convinced that this "upside" you kept hearing about on ESPN would lead the franchise to the promise-land. I was so convinced that I was totally O.K. with Buffalo BENCHING the guy who got them to the playoffs in the first place, Flutie. In retrospect I realize what a total idiot I was and writing this is a bit cathartic. HOWEVER, do not tell me that if Flutie started that game against Tennessee that Buffalo would have won. That is an argument for Mom's and and the old drunk guy at the end of the bar who doesn't know who Gale Gilbert is. FACT.

How could I have possibly thought that this guy was the future of the organization? Ugh.

But now I'm getting off-track, so let's go to the numbers.

Johnson: Record: 9 - 17 Rating: 85.8 Yds: 4798 Comp. %: 60.5 TD: 27 INT: 17

There are a couple of interesting things to think about as you look at those numbers. The record first and foremost shows his total ineptitude as a leader. No matter what talents he had, he could not win games, and much of this has to do with a category that I didn't include. Sacks and hurries. Johnson was constantly holding on to the ball too long or leaving the pocket too early. He was J.P. Losman before J.P. Losman was.

What always gets me is that stupid QB rating. Of all quarterbacks since #12, nobody touches Johnson in that category. In fact, if you take away the win/loss record and look at the rest of those numbers, they look pretty solid for a starter. Not amazing, but better than most of the shit we have had to deal with over the past 10 years. Then there are Flutie's numbers:

Flutie: Record: 21 -9 Rating: 81.7 Yds: 7582 Comp. %: 56.3 TD: 47 INT: 30

Not bad. Especially that record. Flutie found ways to win games and Johnson found ways to lose them. Again, the 2000 playoff game was not left in his hands in the final moments, but besides that, Johnson could not close on his own. Flutie was the guy people played for and Rob Johnson was the arrogant guy who felt self-entitled and pushed players away. Now of course as always, these are sweeping generalizations that have become pretty common on this site, but you have to know what I mean. For example, every single picture I found on google images of Rob Johnson made me want to punch him in the neck. Whereas with Flutie, no douchey pictures at all.

Alright maybe one. But as you look at Flutie's numbers it is obvious that he was the most successful QB after Jim Kelly. I will not argue with that. I wish that I would have seen things that way back in 1999 and lived in the moment instead of imagining championships that would never be. I will stand pat on my argument that Flutie was NOT the future. Not saying that Robbie Jo-Jo was either, but its not like Flutie went on to dominate elsewhere. In four seasons as a San Diego Charger he went 8-14, including that awful 5-11 year in 2001 as the full-time starter. He became a solid go to back-up, but Doug Flutie was never a guy that was going to hoist the Lombardi trophy above his head as a Buffalo Bill. First of all it is way to heavy for him, and second, that was what Drew Bledsoe was for....oh wait.

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14 Comments

The Barrister link

7/10/2011 11:00:11 pm

Flutie and his time with the Bills was the stuff of dreams, of hack Hollywood writers who draw their inspiration from the careers of Pistol Pete and others similarly challenged in the height department.

And I loved him for it.

In fact, everything you say about him indicates that the Bills would have won that game. Under Johnson, who inspired nothing amongst his teammates, the team almost won. It wouldn't have been that close with Flutie under center. Still consider it one of the most frustrating and exciting times to be a Bills fan.

Mike

7/11/2011 05:42:12 am

Flutie would have won that game and the Bills would have gone to the Super Bowl that year (they would have gotten killed by the Rams though).

Johnson's first half ineptitude forced the Bills to keep their tight end in protection in the second half (the Bills were shut out at halftime and only gained 62 yards in the first two quarters). Johnson performed better with protection and then the running game got better, but the Bills were out of their game plan and their success was not due to Johnson. Antoine Smith's 44 yard run at the start of the second half opened up the game.

This would not have been the case with Flutie. Johnson had a great last few minutes, completing a pass while losing his shoe (his finest moment as a pro), but things never should have gotten to that point. Flutie was far and away the better quarterback that year and it was a disgrace that he didn't play.

Yes, Flutie wasn't the future, but neither was the rest of the team. The '99 squad was built to win now and the salary cap was leveraged to make it happen that year. The defense was amazing and the right pieces were in place. By 2001, the team was being dismantled for cap space and we have sucked ever since.

John Howell link

7/11/2011 07:05:45 am

I agree with the barrister. Flutie knew how to win, and seize victory from the jaws of defeat. He would've not only won that game but the whole enchilada that year. Benching him started the Bills demise.

The Scizz link

7/11/2011 08:08:16 am

I think my point was missed. I said Flutie was better AND benching him was stupid, BUT my point about the playoff game is that the "what if" argument is not a legitimate argument. Sure it's fun to guess and act like we know, but we don't. I guess I should have said that "maybe they win, or maybe they don't" instead of saying that Flutie would not have won that game for them. My bad, I worded it wrong. I think that saying that "This is exactly would have happened" is ridiculous. If it worked we'd all be GM's.

For example, Joe at Buffalo Wins has written fantastic posts about "what ifs..." in Buffalo sports that are smart, entertaining, and most importantly don't take themselves too seriously. That is when I consider a "what if" entertaining.

I also need to add that Flutie was not near as good as people think he was. His small stature and nimble little legs made people believe he was a lot better than he actually was. Did he play well? Yes. He over-achieved that entire season, just like the rest of that team. Just look at the same player and team the following season.

Sure the defense played well too, but most of those guys went on to be nobodies. Sam Rogers, Gabe Northern, Thomas Smith, John Holecek, Kurt Schulz. No fan outside of Buffalo even know who those guys are and they were all major contributors. That season was an enigma.

So let me be clear by saying that I adored ALL of those guys, and maybe, just maybe Flutie does take them all the way. But the only people that will EVER make that argument are Buffalo fans, I'm just being realistic. Then again, I may have drunkenly said the other night that Ryan Fitzpatrick will throw for over 3000 yards, 30 TD's and make the Pro Bowl this year. Eek.

The Barrister link

7/11/2011 11:11:08 am

I AM THE ALL-KNOWING MASTER OF FOOTBALL HINDSIGHT.

But, seriously Scizz, your point wasn't missed. I get that we don't know...but, I guess my point is that, for me, I loved Flutie enough that I could've forgiven him for a loss in that game. He got us there, he busted his ass for that team, for us fans. He plays, and none of us are looking back and wondering "What if Johnson had played?," since the matter was settled by Flutie's play and success on the field. Instead, we're left with a loss AND a feeling in our collective gut that our little guy got hosed.

The Yachtsman

7/14/2011 09:31:27 am

Scizz,

Your point wasn't missed, you just worded it poorly (zing).

I agree with Mike fully.

That defense was a championship defense (so what if they weren't names...they played like champions).

I'm surprised in our long and delightful friendship we've never actually had this argument. Interesting.

Also, the caption "Congratulations, you're a Bills fan. Everyone loses!" is my single favorite caption ever put up on this website.

Actually, it's a tie with the first Charles Nelson Reilly "Meh". But championship worthy either way.

Kisses.

I hate you all.

LYI

11/7/2011 01:24:15 pm

Schizz, after the 1999 season, the bills still had a good team. I remember the 2000 season, when Rob Johnson was the starter. In that season, johnson had a 4-7 record as a starter. Flutie had 4-1. I remember the last game that Flutie played for the Bills. It was againts the seahawks. He had a perfect game. I think that the bills had a good team to go to the Super Bowl in 99. We don't know what would have happened if flutie played that game vs the titans, but I think the possibilities would have been greater to win that game. Certainly, Flutie wasn't the qb of the future for the bills, but at least I think he could have done a good job until the 2002-2003 season.

Bill

1/6/2012 10:02:02 am

I hate to interrupt the Flutie love fest here, but I have to debunk a few myths here.

1) Flutie did not have some amazing 1999 season. He was pretty terrific in '98, and won a few games for the Bills that they had no business winning. The Bills' passing offense was in the bottom half of the league. Flutie's QB rating (for what it's worth) and yards per attempt (a better barometer, IMO) were both 24th in the league. The Bills had the #8 run offense in the league, and the #20 passing offense. The revisionist history among Bills fans is amazing. I watched every game that season, he got figured out (much like the new "he just wins" media darling, Tim Tebow, will). The Bills allowed the fewest yards and second-fewest points, THAT is what got them to the playoffs in '99.

Now, was it stupid to bench Flutie? Probably. But let's face it, if the Bills' had stayed in their lanes and tackled Kevin Dyson, we might very well have carried RJ on our shoulders like a conquering hero.

2) Flutie is not some great down-to-earth guy. Everyone knows he's an arrogant ass, and the rest of the Bills thought so. If you haven't read Bucky Gleason's article about him, google "Bucky Gleason Doug Flutie" and take a different look at your hero. The reason the Bills didn't bring him back in '01 was not because they thought Johnson was the savior, but because Flutie was such a hard-to-get-along-with prick. When he got benched before the Titans game, instead of taking the high road and helping his teammate, he pouted and bitched to everyone who would listen about how he was the better player.

3) Flutie did precisely jack-squat after he left the Bills. We all remember that he beat RJ and the Bills in 2001 (and I remember some so-called "Bills Fans" went on message boards cheering; hopefully those people have all been killed in a most painful manner). But some forget that game (week 7) was his last win of the year. Flutie ended that season 5-11, and finished his Chargers career with an 8-14 record. "He Just Wins," does he?

If we had had anything resembling a decent quarterback over the last ten years, we wouldn't be looking at Flutie with such rose-colored glasses. The fact is, he was the girlfriend who we were so in love with in high school, but in retrospect had a crooked eye and bad teeth. PLEASE stop propagating this Flutie Myth to young Bills fans who aren't old enough to know better. Cheers.

The Barrister

1/6/2012 12:26:45 pm

Bill, can you provide a link to that article. If it's the one I just found reposted in a forum, where Bucky provides no quotes, just his win apparently baseless pieces of conjecture and opinion... Then, yeah, I'm not buying it. Bucky is an asshat. The fact he still has a job with the News is a regional disgrace.

That said, I could care less about Flutie being a dick. I live in the past and it's a comfort for me.

The Barrister

1/6/2012 12:32:06 pm

Forgive the typos. Phone.

Bucky sucks.

John Bowen

4/21/2012 02:59:14 pm

Philips picked Robo-sack vs the Titans fierce pass rush instead of Flutie the scrambler

ReggieP

12/24/2012 12:12:39 pm

LOL about the chargers and flutie. Flutie took over a 1-15 team and they went 5-11. He gave his team a chance to win every single one of those games and if my memory serves me right the chargers were up in most of those games when the defense blew it with 2 mins or less. 5-11 is a big improvement from 1-15, I mean what did you expect a superbowl?. Curtis Conway an aging Jeff graham and tim dwight ur top 3 wr's lol. He had a sold te but a rookie rb in tomlinson who had fumble issues. Hell it took superbowl winner drew brees close to 3 years to help turn that ship around. What did rob johnson do in buffalo or out of buffalo lol

Reggiep

12/24/2012 12:15:10 pm

The last qb to guide the bills to the playoffs was doug flutie. Can you say the doug flutie curse

C-Squared

3/12/2013 04:38:57 pm

Andre Reed said that Flutie was the one with the ego and that he was a distraction that split the team and kept them from being as good as they should have been... but if people on the internet say it was the other way around, who is Andre Reed to disagree?

QB Suckitude - Doug Flutie & Rob Johnson '98 - '01

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